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Post by bethemiracle on Feb 2, 2012 19:09:45 GMT
Shania, Yeah, I usually eat potatoe chips too. Lays also have just the three ingredients, potatoes, oil and salt, just the plain ones though. I think I will broaden my list but keep my count under 100. Sit, You can eat what you want if you want, but you have to be aware of the choline count. You want to keep your choline count down, however low works for you. Cookies and sweets really add up quick and some people say the sugar causes an odor. I'm not sure. I use Pop-Tarts and English muffins with jam or All Fruit when I need something sweet. Also apple pie is a little lower than most, but still pretty high. Zuchini is not too bad. I can't remember on beets. You should read thru this thread and see what we're eating and also go to the USDA choline list and get familiar or download or print or whatever that list. You can find it at www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/Choline/Choln02.pdfLast night I came across something I though was pretty exciting to me. It is a spaghetti sauce with no onions or garlic. It's called Mom's, and the only product she makes with no onions or garlic is the Mom's Special Marinara. It looks like Costco might carry it or you can find it online. W Wendy
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Post by bethemiracle on Feb 2, 2012 19:11:35 GMT
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kim
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Post by kim on Feb 4, 2012 6:29:18 GMT
I want to thank all of you blogging about the low choline diet. I am still being strict and trying to keep it at 100 a day and it is tough but I am seeing a difference if I am using the tried and true things but when I try something new, like unfortunately green vegetables, it was terrible for 2 days. I wish I had followed more comments about not doing green veggies. In any event I just bought a meat grinder on E-Bay and want to grind up the good organic chicken that is at my local store. I tried the organic turkey burgers that have rosemary and turkey only and did pretty well. I just wished it didn't have rosemary. So I am going to be really happy to grind the good organic chicken which doesn't have the bad "natural flavorings" that bother me so much. The only ground chicken that is available at my stores is with the natural flavorings so to be able to grind the good stuff I think will help me tremendously with getting my protein. Thanks again. You don't realize how much your insight is helping to us. Kim
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Post by gabby1 on Feb 5, 2012 1:35:10 GMT
No-nos
Egg Yolk Dairy Fish Red meat Beans/legumes Corn Green vegs Peanut butter Whole grains Coffee Chocolate All caffeine?
Shop list
Choline Cartnine Cruciferous vegs Nitrogen Sulphur Phospherous Lethicin Soy Phosphatidyl choline Disodium guanylate
It may not be possible to avoid all of these all the time, but if you are aware if what is in the foods you eat and have a bad reaction you can adjust accordingly.
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Post by bethemiracle on Feb 5, 2012 7:35:42 GMT
Kim, This all has been very helpful to me too. Sorry about the effect from the green veggies. I'm wondering, was it a lot of green veggies that made your choline count go high, or was it a small amount and you were within your count and you still had the bad effect? Also, curious what were the green veggies, if you don't mind.
I think the meat grinder is a good idea. Then you really know exactly what you're eating. I just bought a food scale that measures grams so I know exaclty how much I'm getting.
Gabby, Thanks for the lists. Who knew about the Disodium guanylate. I had no idea. If it is not already, maybe that could be made better known on the TMAU websites.
Also, just FYI, after looking further into the Mom's Special Marinara, they said it's got cream and butter, so I don't know if that wouold be better or worse than the onions and garlic??? Might want to experiment.
I think it would be helpful to have three lists...one "no-nos" list which would be like the list that Gabby compiled with yolks and coffee, etc.; one "chemical/additive type things to stay away from," such as the Disodium guanylate, lecithin, so forth; and a "safe" list that would include things that don't give anyone a problem, as long as you keep the amount within your choline count, such as green peppers, cucumbers, chicken, olive oil. So the "safe" list would not include things that even if you eat a teeny tiny bit it has a bad effect, like I hear about coffee, for instance.
I hope I'm explaining myself clearly. Like obviously if you'd eat a whole loaf of bread you'd have a problem, but maybe there's a certain bread that, when eaten in small amounts, would be okay. I think this list would be real helpful for people to choose from. Not that they would HAVE to stick to that list, but they know they'd be pretty safe with small amounts of anything on that list. And not that they could never eat from the no-nos list either, but that you just really want to basically stay away from that.
If people would like to post here the foods that they eat that DON'T give them a problem, if everybody agrees, I'll compile a list and we can continue to add to it. We can even do brands, like the College Inn chicken broth, for instance. Like I would really like to find a spaghetti sauce that is not loaded with garlic or onions. That's how I found the Mom's, but now I'm nervous about the cream.
Maybe we could start with the list we came up with in the earlier part of this thead and we can call that the "safe" list, or if someone has a better suggestion for a title, and work from there. I'll go back in this thread and copy and post it after I finish this post. If there are things on there that folks really disagree with we'll take them off.
Wendy
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Post by bethemiracle on Feb 5, 2012 8:18:52 GMT
Okay, Everybody, here is our list that we agreed to earlier. The list we are compiling now is a little different than that list. The list we are going to compile here are all "SAFE" foods to eat that mostly never give folks a problem when eaten in small enough amounts to keep their choline count down. For instance, I removed the egg whites from the "safe" list because, even though a lot of people can eat them succussfully, a lot of people say they have a problem with them. Not that a lot of people wouldn't be okay eating them, just that they're not on the "always" safe list. Make sense? Hope so. So we can start from this list. And below this list I'll list a few things to bring up for discussion. If you don't like this idea, let me know that too. If you do like the idea, I"m really looking forward to the input and discussion starting with this list. If we get a lot of input here and folks agree, maybe we could finish the list, and leave it as a "living" list, and put a link on the website. My hopes are that it would give people who are just learning, or anybody, or when you don't have time to do a lot of research, you can just refer to this list and do your shopping or menu plan, and be pretty safe. I mean, there are all the foods you shouldn't eat, but sometimes I know I just want to know: What CAN you eat? I think there's been a lot of experimenting and good research done with a lot of members here that could be compiled into a very useful list here. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - SAFE LIST (to start working from) rice milk (Rice Dream, orig.) (?? don't know amt.) Crispix cereal 4 Rice Krispies cereal 6 white rice 2 pasta 6.5 sweet potato (small amounts) 13 white potatos (but better nutrion choice is sweet potato) 14 chicken breast or thighs 60 green & other sweet peppers 5 cucumbers 6 celery 6 carrots 9 zuchini 9.5 tomatoes 8 (contains sulphur but seems to b ok for TMAU) egg plant 9 Romain lettuce 10 pears Canned in heavy syrup 2 peaches canned in syrup 4 strawberries 6 blueberries 6 blackberries 9 gelatin (Jello) (sugar or sugar-free) .6 English muffins (infrequently) 16 Kellogg's Pop tart strawberry frosted 8, (16 for 2 pastries I imagine) olive oil .3 herbal caffeine-free tea sea salt only for seasoning cinnamon black pepper NEW ITEMS TO DISCUSS: bread (what kind? French, white, or hotdog/hamburg buns, etc ) grapeschicken/turkey/beef/pork precooked sausages (like hotdog/sausage type)-would be nice to come up with a type/blend that works out pretty well. they're really handy to eat on a bun or to cut up in rice, etc. Which is best: chix sausage, turkey... or maybe it turns out none could go on the safe list, but it's worth a try. ketchupmustardThanks! Wendy
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kim
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Post by kim on Feb 5, 2012 18:59:52 GMT
Hi, What bothered me for 2 days was a raw spinach salad. I made it myself including the salad dressing and the spinach really did me in. I know that the other ingredients (cannola oil, organic sugar, white vinegar, tomato paste) haven't bothered me in the past and they were such a small quantity I know it was the spinach that lingered. I also have a very bad problem with cooked mushrooms. I have heard that mushrooms are indigestible and so maybe that is why. I smelled like rubber. I am suggesting adding to your list of what I can tolerate and maybe others can attest to no problems:
red apple with skin = 6 Cream of Rice cereal 1 cup = 2 Sourdough bread 1 slice = 9
I would venture to say that they cause me no problems. I know that I can't do almost any other bread as there is always soy in it. I even have to read the ingredients of the sour dough bread I buy to make sure there is no soy.
Kim
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Post by beautifulsoul on Feb 5, 2012 21:33:56 GMT
Hi All, I haven't been posting in this post for a while...I got sick for a while there and wasn't able to eat the diet. Actually, I ended up getting some antibiotics for sinusitis (Azithromycin) because I tried using a netipot with grapefruit seed extract to get rid or my odor and allergies. I heard some people tried this and it cured them. Well, my odor went way down after doing this and taking the antibiotics, so my might be more connected to my sinuses and throat. (Btw, it was EXTREMELY painful, so beware if you ever try it) Anyway, just wanted to share....
The odor is coming back now if I don't stick to low-chloine foods though I noticed. So, I will be trying the diet with you guys again. Another thing I noticed that REALLY helps is Organic Apple Cider Vinegar. I bathe in it and drink a couple teaspoons in water before or after eating. It helps your stomach digest things. Also, I bought pine tar soap yesterday and that seemed to help as I drank some coffee and had that garbage smell coming back.
About the ACV, it HAS to be organic or it wont work. I tried the regular stuff b4 and it didn't help. It's one of the things my Naturopathic doctor had me doing and I realized that's why it didn't work before. Also, I was able to eat beef and hardly notice a smell when drinking ACV with it.
Does everyone try to stick to 100 mg a day? Cause I could see where you would lose weight then. I think I will be starving, but I will try it. I have gained quite a bit of weight lately, so this wont be such a bad thing I guess.
Oh, one more thing...anyone notice if they sleep more that their smell goes down a lot? Mine does I noticed, wonder why?
Happy low-choline dieting everyone...
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Post by beautifulsoul on Feb 5, 2012 22:08:08 GMT
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sit
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Post by sit on Feb 6, 2012 15:42:14 GMT
Please tell me who knows how much to consume mg magnesium, riboflavin, zinc, and others?
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kim
New Member
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Post by kim on Feb 7, 2012 4:02:02 GMT
Great article about stomach acid and digestion. I firmly believe that we need stomach acid and the medications can do harm that are antacids. I also just bought Organic Apple Cider Vinegar and I really like it. I know that it is an acid and I know in the past I feel like I am having less odor if I eat a home made salad with a dressing made from scratch using vinegar. I make my salad dressing with cannola oil, organic sugar and vinegar and tonight I used the Organic Apple Cider Vinegar and I really liked it. I think I will try it in my bath as well. Can't hurt! I am doing great with the ground chicken (ground from my very own meat grinder) . I would smell like rubber if I just ate a chicken breast or thigh but if I grind it I have no problem. So now I have an awesome salad of organic red leaf lettuce (I am trying to stay away from all green vegetables - like spinach!), ground chicken, organic cucumber (there is a lot of white in this green veggie), a few organic pecans and a few dried cranberries. I think it is a perfect dinner for me as it has a lot of protein and fiber and not to high of a choline count.
You are all awesome with your helpful ideas. I feel great!
Kim
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Post by beautifulsoul on Feb 7, 2012 14:38:30 GMT
Yeah the article was an eye opener for me! Glad your liking the ACV. I think it actually tastes pretty good and it's helped lower my cravings for sugar AND Meat! Sounds like a yummy salad! Also, sounds like your doing well with the diet! Awesome! :0) You just made me realise a meal can still be high in protein yet low in choline. I wasn't thinking that before.
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Post by bethemiracle on Feb 7, 2012 17:53:16 GMT
Interesting about the ground chicken. Do you mean the very same chicken would cause a burning rubber, but if you grind it, it doesn't? Do you think it has something to do with digesting it easier???
I've heard differing opinions about apple cidar vinegar. Some say good and some say bad. Unless I am confusing regular vinegar with apple cidar vinegar. I like the apple cidar vinegar too. Can anyone tell us if it's a bad thing for them, please. I'm probably thinking of regular vinegar. If no responses, we'll know it's good!
Yeah, cucumbers and green peppers are low. Carrots aren't too bad either. I like fresh lemon juice squeezed in my salad dressing too.
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sit
New Member
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Post by sit on Feb 7, 2012 17:55:50 GMT
I am interested in a quote from the topic at curezone.com curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1191287 here it is A. Low choline diet (According to the Institute of Medicine, National Academy of Sciences USA 1998, the adequate daily intake of choline is 550 mg for males and 425mg for females for adults) I don't know if this also applies to people with TMAU. I guess it depends on how much FM03 you produce. And I thought that 100 mg is too low. It may indeed be taking choline greater than 100 mg?
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Post by shania12345 on Feb 7, 2012 22:49:42 GMT
Sit,
that is the minimum amount that should be consumed by a normal person so they aren't deficient in choline.
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