Stomach digestion - Betaine elimination?

[bethemiracle]

I've been going over the basics of treatment for TMAU and I keep reading about Betaine and I see diets with "low Betaine." Are we supposed to be watching our Betaine intake?
I have, probably for a couple years now, been taking a digestive support supplement called Metagest by Metagenics. I understood it to be like stomach acid because I was told I don't produce stomach acid and therefore my food wasn't being digested, etc. Well, the main ingredient is "Betaine HCI - 1300 mg."
First, should we avoid Betain and is this the same Betaine that I've been reading we should avoid? Second, should I stop taking this, and if so, what do I do about my stomach? Any thoughts? I'm confused about this Betaine

[wonder999]

I am diagnosed with TMAU, very rarely smell myself, just a quick wiff for a second, once or twice a year!

But recently I have had a number of wiffs of stale urine over the course of a week or so. The only thing that was different was some digestive enzyme supplements that had betaine HCl (Ive disposed of the bottle and cant rememeber exact ingredients. ) So I stopped taking them and Im not getting that smell anymore.

Was my digestion aided, as promised!, and I was therefore getting more choline etc from food? Was the smell changed slightly so that I could smell it better than usual? Or was my body just reacting to the betaine like it would choline? (I know there is a chemical connection between them, but couldnt understand what I was reading.)

People didnt act any more irritated by my odour than usual, so it might be I smell that bad all the time and I just got a little sample of it

[bethemiracle]

I put out the same type of question to other TMAU forums and here are some answers I got. Just so confusing, but I'm thinking of avoiding, I guess, to be on the safe side More food, too, not to eat???


Re: [Trimethylaminuria] Betaine??? should we avoid???
Ok, I can't give a definitive answer, but here is my thought:

Betaine is also known as TMG or trimethylglycine. (like trimethylamine)
www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-312-BETAINE%20HYDROCHLORIDE.aspx?activeIngredientId=312&activeIngredientName=BETAINE%20HYDROCHLORIDE

Wikipedia says the degradation of TMG yields trimethylamine, the smell of putrefying fish.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylglycine

In as much as you can trust Wikipedia, I would suggest taking it at a minimum if necessary. I'm not a chemist but think it is safe to say it is processed by the FMO3 also, so take this into consideration when calculating the amount of choline in your diet.

Maybe talk to your doctor about another drug/supplement for your stomach issue? Betaine seems to be a 'carrier' of the hydrochloride, not necessary for helping with stomach acid itself. There may be something better focused with our issue.


Yes, a lot of speculation but that is my thoughts on this. Anyone else?

AND ALSO THIS ANSWER:

when the choline list came out in 2004 I asked the researcher named on
the list about betaine and it causing odor in TMAU. He assured me that betaine
should be fine and not needed to be counted like the other choline compnents..
www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/Choline/Choline.pdf

Try the Metagest especially if you have TMAU2. It may help but like we all know,
what helps one of us doesn't mean it will work on all of us.

Good luck,

[bethemiracle]

Here is a quote from an article I found re: Betaine:

Some humans with a defect in the flavin-containing
monooxygenase-3 gene (FMO3) develop fishy body odor
because they accumulate trimethylamine, a breakdown
product formed from choline by bacteria in the gut (6-9).
A choline-restricted diet is useful in these patients because
it diminishes body odor (10); betaine does not need
to be restricted because it is not a substrate for these
bacteria.

Also, if I understood the article right, it talks about folate, and I think maybe some folks don't know this: But a low-choline diet causes diminished folate and diminished folate needs choline. Meaning (I think, according to my interpretation) if you choline gets low, then your folate gets low. If the folate gets low your body will want to manufacture choline. So the folate part of our treatment is very important so we don't manufacture extra choline. I wonder if a lot of people were aware of that. I have the full article if anyone is interested. Just didn't want to attach such a long article. It has menues of choline in food, etc.

Hope this is helpful!

[TrustMe]

Avoid betaine. We are supposed to avoid "trimethylamine precursors", not just "choline precursors". Choline precursors are the most common precursors of trimethylamine but they are not the only ones. About this piece of article that you posted, it assumes that we are supposed to avoid only choline precursors and that's a wrong assumption.