Post by Arun Nagrath on Nov 3, 2011 20:19:30 GMT
From Archive 18/03/11
Larc4
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4
Tongue Surgery
Lifted from another forum
--------------------------------------
Hi, this is just speculation, but shouldn't it be possible to perform surgery on the final 3rd of the tongue (by the base)?
The idea would be to make the surface much more even, so that bacteria cannot find a hiding place.
Tongue looks something like this in a microscope. Bacteria hide deep down in those deep valleys.
Maybe one of the following methods can be used to flatten the surface:
Cryosurgery:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryosurgery
Laser:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Er:YAG
Electrocautery:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...Electrocautery
Photorejuvenation:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_resurfacing
Does anyone know of a suitable surgeon with whom we can discuss this?
#2
19th March 2011
mpdela
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 1,350
Blog Entries: 3
Re: Tongue Surgery
Hi Larc,
This is an interesting theory you have. Have you ever consulted with a surgeon about this? I suppose that if they did this more toward the dorsal tongue, where Arun says the anaerobic bacteria grows that is very difficult to treat and kill off, that it shouldn't affect the rest of the nerves on the tongue that help us feel the temperature and texture of the food we eat.
You are right, they use those techniques you mention below as a treatment to kill off abnormal cervical cell as well as for tonsillectomies, and sometimes other oral surgeries to stop the bleeding, etc.
However, we all know that if it works, it will take care of a localized source of odor many dentists don't identify all the time, but a surgery like this won't do a thing for alveolar halitosis. But nonetheless, to reduce the odor by at least eliminating one of the sources is a good think.
I would love to hear of any doctor anywhere in the world who would be open minded enough to be interested in doing this. Maybe we could interview him/her?
Thanks for sharing this idea, Larc.
María
#3
25th March 2011
Larc4
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4
Re: Tongue Surgery
Hi!
I've now asked an ENT surgeon for his opinion on this idea.
He said this type of tongue surgery is not being done in this country (Sweden) and he doubts no one would try it. Unfortunately it would be very hard to make the tongue surface totally smooth. If you perform surgery (laser or other) on the upper layer, a new surface would grow, which may be even more uneven (and harbour more bacteria).
He also checked my nasal passage and nasopharynx area. The only thing abnormal is that I have very sticky/frothy fluids back there. I guess it's what we refer to as post-nasal drip. He said this may be a result of too much tongue scraping (the secretions being a response to the mechanical microtrauma caused by the scraping). So it's a bit of a vicious circle. I scrape, which results in more glue-like secretions, which makes the BB worse, etc.
Lastly, I asked for a Pilocarpine (Salagen) prescription, in order to produce more non-sticky (serous) saliva. I can already tell it has that effect. If it reduces my BB I still don't know but it should have some positive effect
#4
26th March 2011
mpdela
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 1,350
Blog Entries: 3
Re: Tongue Surgery
Hi Larc,
That's a good point your doctor makes against surgery. WE certainly wouldn't want to create a breeding ground for bacteria.
To make a long story short, in one of my asthma and sinusitis episode, my asthma specialist prescribed a NasoNeb Nasal Irrigator to use it with an localized (not systemic) antibiotic, cortisone to reduce inflammation, and saline solution. Now, I just use it with saline solution to kill off any microbes that may produce BB, and sometimes with both saline solution and the cortisone solution to reduce inflammation.
Although it wasn't prescribed for halitosis, it is an absolute miracle worker. It not only thoroughly cleans the sinuses, makes the mucous become less thick and easier to drain out, but it also treats the upper and lower part of the back wall of your throat where your post nasal drip flows, and it also falls onto the dorsal tongue. The treatment is actually quite gross because it produces the gag reflex as the solution touches the back wall of your throat and dorsal tongue.
You might want to see the video demonstration on their website, nasoneb.com/index.php?page=nebulizer . They don't show the part where you spit it out because, like I said, it is gross. But the video does show how it reaches the sinuses to moisten and clean the area gently, and when needed, your doctor can prescribe the necessary medication.
What I love the most about this is that if I use it when I notice the mucous membrane is too thick and not draining, or when I feel I might be getting sinusitis or soar throat, usually with odor, I use it with saline solution right at the onset of symptoms. If the saline solution alone isn't taking care of it, my doctor quickly prescribes the NasoNeb antibiotics and cortisone, in hopes to avoid taking oral antibiotics and other very strong meds. It sometimes takes care of the problem. But if I wait too long, then I usually end up with more serious infections and asthma. Nonetheless, whether it be a sinus and throat infection, or odorous nasal secretions and saliva due to having eaten the wrong foods, IT HELPS WITH BREATH ODOR.
Since I don't need to swallow the antibiotics or the cortisone, my doctor told me to work on learning how to spitting it out. In other words, the mist with the medicine gently goes up your sinuses (as demonstrated in the video) and down through the back of your throat towards the dorsal tongue. Because the solution touches your dorsal tongue, it produces the gag reflex, so you have to practice to learn to spit it out and not swallow it. This way, the rest of your digestive system doesn't receive the antibiotics or cortisone, and it remains a localized treatment.
It's actually a very good thing, which allows me to use it more frequently, and I do use it frequently as needed.
I have found that helps my breath so much, even when I eat the wrong foods by getting rid of the odorous nasal secretions! It's sort of like taking a bath or shower. Of course, if you break your diet continously, it won't work either. When I eat all the wrong foods for me, such as fish, beans, or eggs, the mucous membrane in my sinuses and my saliva also tend to smell, as do the oils in my scalp and skin, urine, etc. I am also aware that my alveolar breath smells (but the NasoNeb won't fix that), and that my saliva and post nasal drip become thicker, more cotton-mouth like, and they smells. So my first thought now is to go do the NasoNeb treatment.
That's when I pull out the NasoNeb, and immediately, the saline solution alone makes it all less thick and it drains very well, and keeps draining for a few minutes after the treatment. At least the odorous secretions drain off each time I use it. I know then that I need to drink plenty of water and repeat this treatment two to three times a day, until it improves - basically until the odorous compounds leave my body when I return to my proper diet.
María
#5
7th May 2011
Larc4
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4
Re: Tongue Surgery
Maria, thanks a lot for the advice!
Have you tried other nasal irrigators before, for example this one?
www.allergybuyersclub.com/hyd...rrigators.html
I just want to make sure I buy the best one for our situation. Ideally I would only want to target the nasopharynx area, as I don't have any issues with my actual nasal passage / sinuses. Are you able to direct the stream along the nasal floor so that it reaches the nasopharynx directly ?
Looking forward to your response!
Carl
Larc4
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4
Tongue Surgery
Lifted from another forum
--------------------------------------
Hi, this is just speculation, but shouldn't it be possible to perform surgery on the final 3rd of the tongue (by the base)?
The idea would be to make the surface much more even, so that bacteria cannot find a hiding place.
Tongue looks something like this in a microscope. Bacteria hide deep down in those deep valleys.
Maybe one of the following methods can be used to flatten the surface:
Cryosurgery:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryosurgery
Laser:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Er:YAG
Electrocautery:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...Electrocautery
Photorejuvenation:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_resurfacing
Does anyone know of a suitable surgeon with whom we can discuss this?
#2
19th March 2011
mpdela
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 1,350
Blog Entries: 3
Re: Tongue Surgery
Hi Larc,
This is an interesting theory you have. Have you ever consulted with a surgeon about this? I suppose that if they did this more toward the dorsal tongue, where Arun says the anaerobic bacteria grows that is very difficult to treat and kill off, that it shouldn't affect the rest of the nerves on the tongue that help us feel the temperature and texture of the food we eat.
You are right, they use those techniques you mention below as a treatment to kill off abnormal cervical cell as well as for tonsillectomies, and sometimes other oral surgeries to stop the bleeding, etc.
However, we all know that if it works, it will take care of a localized source of odor many dentists don't identify all the time, but a surgery like this won't do a thing for alveolar halitosis. But nonetheless, to reduce the odor by at least eliminating one of the sources is a good think.
I would love to hear of any doctor anywhere in the world who would be open minded enough to be interested in doing this. Maybe we could interview him/her?
Thanks for sharing this idea, Larc.
María
#3
25th March 2011
Larc4
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4
Re: Tongue Surgery
Hi!
I've now asked an ENT surgeon for his opinion on this idea.
He said this type of tongue surgery is not being done in this country (Sweden) and he doubts no one would try it. Unfortunately it would be very hard to make the tongue surface totally smooth. If you perform surgery (laser or other) on the upper layer, a new surface would grow, which may be even more uneven (and harbour more bacteria).
He also checked my nasal passage and nasopharynx area. The only thing abnormal is that I have very sticky/frothy fluids back there. I guess it's what we refer to as post-nasal drip. He said this may be a result of too much tongue scraping (the secretions being a response to the mechanical microtrauma caused by the scraping). So it's a bit of a vicious circle. I scrape, which results in more glue-like secretions, which makes the BB worse, etc.
Lastly, I asked for a Pilocarpine (Salagen) prescription, in order to produce more non-sticky (serous) saliva. I can already tell it has that effect. If it reduces my BB I still don't know but it should have some positive effect
#4
26th March 2011
mpdela
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 1,350
Blog Entries: 3
Re: Tongue Surgery
Hi Larc,
That's a good point your doctor makes against surgery. WE certainly wouldn't want to create a breeding ground for bacteria.
To make a long story short, in one of my asthma and sinusitis episode, my asthma specialist prescribed a NasoNeb Nasal Irrigator to use it with an localized (not systemic) antibiotic, cortisone to reduce inflammation, and saline solution. Now, I just use it with saline solution to kill off any microbes that may produce BB, and sometimes with both saline solution and the cortisone solution to reduce inflammation.
Although it wasn't prescribed for halitosis, it is an absolute miracle worker. It not only thoroughly cleans the sinuses, makes the mucous become less thick and easier to drain out, but it also treats the upper and lower part of the back wall of your throat where your post nasal drip flows, and it also falls onto the dorsal tongue. The treatment is actually quite gross because it produces the gag reflex as the solution touches the back wall of your throat and dorsal tongue.
You might want to see the video demonstration on their website, nasoneb.com/index.php?page=nebulizer . They don't show the part where you spit it out because, like I said, it is gross. But the video does show how it reaches the sinuses to moisten and clean the area gently, and when needed, your doctor can prescribe the necessary medication.
What I love the most about this is that if I use it when I notice the mucous membrane is too thick and not draining, or when I feel I might be getting sinusitis or soar throat, usually with odor, I use it with saline solution right at the onset of symptoms. If the saline solution alone isn't taking care of it, my doctor quickly prescribes the NasoNeb antibiotics and cortisone, in hopes to avoid taking oral antibiotics and other very strong meds. It sometimes takes care of the problem. But if I wait too long, then I usually end up with more serious infections and asthma. Nonetheless, whether it be a sinus and throat infection, or odorous nasal secretions and saliva due to having eaten the wrong foods, IT HELPS WITH BREATH ODOR.
Since I don't need to swallow the antibiotics or the cortisone, my doctor told me to work on learning how to spitting it out. In other words, the mist with the medicine gently goes up your sinuses (as demonstrated in the video) and down through the back of your throat towards the dorsal tongue. Because the solution touches your dorsal tongue, it produces the gag reflex, so you have to practice to learn to spit it out and not swallow it. This way, the rest of your digestive system doesn't receive the antibiotics or cortisone, and it remains a localized treatment.
It's actually a very good thing, which allows me to use it more frequently, and I do use it frequently as needed.
I have found that helps my breath so much, even when I eat the wrong foods by getting rid of the odorous nasal secretions! It's sort of like taking a bath or shower. Of course, if you break your diet continously, it won't work either. When I eat all the wrong foods for me, such as fish, beans, or eggs, the mucous membrane in my sinuses and my saliva also tend to smell, as do the oils in my scalp and skin, urine, etc. I am also aware that my alveolar breath smells (but the NasoNeb won't fix that), and that my saliva and post nasal drip become thicker, more cotton-mouth like, and they smells. So my first thought now is to go do the NasoNeb treatment.
That's when I pull out the NasoNeb, and immediately, the saline solution alone makes it all less thick and it drains very well, and keeps draining for a few minutes after the treatment. At least the odorous secretions drain off each time I use it. I know then that I need to drink plenty of water and repeat this treatment two to three times a day, until it improves - basically until the odorous compounds leave my body when I return to my proper diet.
María
#5
7th May 2011
Larc4
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4
Re: Tongue Surgery
Maria, thanks a lot for the advice!
Have you tried other nasal irrigators before, for example this one?
www.allergybuyersclub.com/hyd...rrigators.html
I just want to make sure I buy the best one for our situation. Ideally I would only want to target the nasopharynx area, as I don't have any issues with my actual nasal passage / sinuses. Are you able to direct the stream along the nasal floor so that it reaches the nasopharynx directly ?
Looking forward to your response!
Carl